12D/ Strategies For Bridging to Next-Generation Identity Systems (from the bottom up)
Strategies For Bridging to Next-Generation Identity Systems (from the bottom up)
Convener: David Schmudde
Tags for the session - technology discussed/ideas considered:
- OAuth, #OIDC, #VCs, #schema
Discussion notes, key understandings, outstanding questions, observations, and, if appropriate to this discussion: action items, next steps:
Session Slides: https://schmud.de/download/bridging-to-next-genid-systems.pdf
Zoom Chat Window:
20:23:35 From Joe Hsy To Everyone : +1 on relationship vs identity
20:29:48 From Bogdana Rakova To Everyone : +1 on relationship vs identity too! I’m deeply involved in work on ethical/trustworthy/responsible AI and recently worked on a proposal for a ‘relational view on ethics of AI’ and think the bottom up efforts in our field has recently been present in media, and I wonder what do you think is the intersection between the IIW community and the ethical AI work? What relationships exist and how do we help make them stronger through a bottom up approach?
20:32:38 From Robert To Everyone : I would add that actually to maintain relationship you need to have proper identification not necessary identity. Means if I prove the the store that I bought already 10 times is equvalent to having "stable" relationship under some identifier/session
20:32:46 From Robert To Everyone : so identification vs identity
20:34:51 From Joe Hsy To Everyone : Risk of reidentification becomes greater the more VC and other data is gathered.
20:36:23 From Dan Robertson (he/him) To Everyone : I’ve heard it suggested that bulk address updates are an example of something that could be made very low-friction once DIDComm is widely adopted
20:40:47 From Dan Robertson (he/him) To Everyone : In addition to the info collected being more reliable (verifiable) than if the consumer filled out a form, it should also be much lower-friction for the consumer to provide. e.g. One-click checkout should be possible even the first time visiting an e-commerce site
20:42:13 From Padungkiat Tamasee To Everyone : How to find the side link please
20:42:49 From Bogdana Rakova To Everyone : @Dan, could you say more about what kinds of verification do you envision?
20:42:59 From Bogdana Rakova To Everyone : From the standpoint of the consumer
20:47:39 From Dan Robertson (he/him) To Everyone : @Bogdana, I think that theoretically (once SSI is more widely adopted) a consumer could present a ZKP that proves some issuer (e.g. local government) had given them a VC that asserts the consumer’s home address (for shipping). They only disclose the “address” attribute of the VC.
20:51:33 From Bogdana Rakova To Everyone : Thanks!
20:57:58 From Dan Robertson (he/him) To Everyone : Amazon is exactly who does not want this kind of innovation, because it will erode their moat (competitive advantage) built up over decades of customer acquisition and customer relationship management. However, the long tail (vendors on Shopify, WooCommerce, Squarespace, etc) of e-commerce merchants could benefit from a network effect of all supporting the same standard and allowing for instant customer onboarding (once a user has setup to use SSI for shopping on any other site already).
21:03:26 From Robert To Everyone : https://media.sitra.fi/2018/12/22091907/ihan-blueprint-2-5.pdf
21:08:03 From Robert To Everyone : https://oca.colossi.network/
21:10:24 From Joe Hsy To Everyone : @Dan, agreed form Amazon perspective that they won’t want to erode their competitive advantage. If the 2nd tier and long tail vendors can share data and user experience in a safe way, it could provide similar kind of consumer benefits. It will be challenging though.
21:11:45 From Joe Hsy To Everyone : What could be interesting to track is the trend toward DTC (direct to consumer) vendors and how they are successful.
21:13:13 From Dan Robertson (he/him) To Everyone : There is some consumer benefit as well, if the UX is good and onboarding only needs to happen once. I’d love to buy from other merchants more often — but don’t want to create account, enter shipping info, add credit card, etc. at a store I’ve never shopped at (unless I have to). Amazon gets my business even when I wish they didn’t.
21:14:24 From Robert To Everyone : maybe worth to mention is that eIDAS 2.0 would introduce digital wallet specification which means in EU people not only would have digital identity but as well "own" walllet which can serve as this gateway towards services - and you already onboarded ...
21:14:26 From Joe Hsy To Everyone : “Amazon gets my business even when I wish they didn’t.” - I can relate to this feeling. Also Costco.
21:15:36 From Robert To Everyone : what I found interesting is that solution which I am mentioning is supper interesting for SMEs since they can't compete with amazon or ebay and they need to find a way through so they are eager to try new solutions
21:15:57 From Robert To Everyone : amazon for sure would not be super happy to support stuff like that :)
21:16:10 From Robert To Everyone : maybe alibaba would since they have siilar way of thinking about supporting SMEs
21:17:29 From Joe Hsy To Everyone : Actually, I can see Amazon doing this if they can still play a critical role.
21:19:15 From Robert To Everyone : They for sure would try